Yeah, well to describe Bob, he was a farm boy from Indiana, but he just had a gift for seeing into a piece of wood. And also, he had a gift for form. And he was in a conscientious objector camp, and that's where he turned his first bowl… and he took them to Gump's, and they said, "We could sell these for you." And so that's how he got started.

There was a group called the Designer Craftsmen of California, and so we would meet at the meetings occasionally, and Bob lived here, and I lived on Milvia Street, just about five blocks away. And so he would pick me up when we would go to these meetings.

We got married in 1972, actually on the deck of my older sister's house in Piedmont… it worked out quite nicely, that is, you know, Bob worked ... He had a basement shop right under here, and then I did all my work upstairs, and then we would meet here for lunch.